THIS Q&A STARTED AS AN INTERVIEW ABOUT IN-HOUSE DESIGN ISSUES. I WANTED TO HEAR ABOUT THE EXPERIENCES AND CHOICES IN THIS PART OF THE DESIGN WORLD, AS OPPOSED TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR. I SAT DOWN WITH TWO OF THE MOST INTERESTING DESIGNERS WHO NAVIGATE THE IN-HOUSE ENVIRONMENT: MICHAEL LEJEUNE, CREATIVE DIRECTOR AT METRO (THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY METROPOLITAN TRANSPORTATION AUTHORITY) AND MARC BLAUSTEIN, ART DIRECTOR AT THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY (NYPL). AS WE TALKED, THEIR THOUGHTS CONTINUALLY SHIFTED AWAY FROM IN-HOUSE OPERATION ISSUES, VEERING TOWARD A RECURRING THEME: THE CONCEPT OF DESIGNING FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD. OF COURSE, I WASN'T EAGER TO LET THIS Q&A BE COMMANDEERED AWAY FROM MY IDEA, BUT EVENTUALLY I SURRENDERED. IN THE END, MICHAEL AND MARC REMINDED ME OF THE EXCITEMENT I FELT WHEN I FIRST STARTED IN THE PROFESSION-THE SENSE THAT I COULD CHANGE THE WORLD. HERE IS WHAT MAKES EACH OF THESE DESIGNERS REMARKABLE: THEY NEVER FALTER FROM THIS VISION, AND THEIR WORK DOES, INDEED, CHANGE THE WORLD.

SA: So Marc and Michael, why did you choose in-house nonprofit and government? Why not start your own firm and name it something offbeat, like "Pterodactyl"? How did you end up at NYPL and Metro?

MB: I fell into nonprofit. After working for a number of years for corporate clients, I was offered a staff position at NYPL, and I quickly felt at home in that environment. I tend to gravitate toward groups whose causes I feel strongly about-groups that try to make a positive impact on our society and work toward the greater good.

ML: I was working in the private sector, with KBDA [Kim Baer Design Associates]. It's a fantastic company, great colleagues, and we were generating top-quality work. Metro created the creative director position as it embarked on a concerted effort to ... reorganize the entire Communications division. It seemed like the moment was right, and the rocket was about to launch. Happily for me, I threw my hat into the ring, and I got the job.

I didn't realize we would be painting on a very public canvas. That came as a surprise, both good and bad. Transportation is the hot topic in Los Angeles now, due to Southern California's rapid growth and the pressing need for real solutions. This is great, because the work we do has such a direct through-line to our audience, which is everyone in Los Angeles County-all 10 million of us.

SA: My first job was in-house at NYPL. I loved the access to incredible materials, and I still have a soft spot in my heart for my boss, Marilan Lund. You both design for the same client every day. How do you approach keeping the work fresh, for the audience and yourselves?

MB: Marilan was a great boss-she helped and supported me immensely. From her I gained a new appreciation of classical typography that I might not have developed otherwise. As for designing for the same client every day and keeping things fresh, things have been changing a lot at NYPL in recent years. The most significant changes have been in the attitude and approach of the administration to design issues. The internal culture is now much more forward-thinking and-dare I say-hip! It was an inevitable change. The new audiences demand an institution that grows visually and conceptually as the world moves forward. Like Woody Allen's comparison of a relationship and a shark: If it doesn't keep moving, it dies.

ML: With Metro, there were many buckets of information that we were tackling all at once, as we waded into a complete redesign of the brand and information graphics simultaneously. We first put standards into place regarding type, color and page layout. Out of this came templates. This consistent structure helped us design without reinventing the wheel each time. We concentrate creativity on the other half of our job list: the projects that need fresh thinking, a unique application of Metro's voice or novel design solutions. We work collaboratively, so everyone in the studio nudges big projects along. We challenge ourselves to keep the work fresh and lively, because our customers deserve that. It's practically a requirement for impactful design in a place as hip and saturated as Los Angeles. Because we are supporting a relationship with a public that's still developing, "fresh" for us isn't about wholly new design; more often, it's about new ways to engage our audience.

SA: I've heard people define design for the public good as pro-bono work. In a broad sense, most of us are designing for the public good; I don't know any designers trying to make the world a worse place. How would you define designing for the public good, and how does your work fit into that definition?

MB: For me, the recipe for this is pretty simple. Step one: Choose an institution you believe in. Step two: Design for it. In those rare moments when I question why I'm at NYPL, I walk through the corridors of the main building at 42nd Street, or go to the cathedral-like, awe-inspiring Main Reading Room. There I see people busily researching or studying, consulting our brochures, signage and other materials, and suddenly everything falls away, and I say, "Ah, yes! This is why I'm here."

ML: Designing for the public good equates to our three basic goals: First, we want to create design for Metro that makes our core, transit-dependent customers feel good about their system. Second, we want to convert drivers into riders, which in turn takes cars off the road, reduces emissions and saves the planet. And third, we want everyone else in Los Angeles County to feel that Metro's doing a good job with public resources and spending tax money wisely. If we're successful on all counts, the trickle-down has a hugely positive effect: A system that core riders love and treat well, less congestion and pollution as we convert drivers into customers and a galvanizing of public opinion that leads to more money for future projects.

SA: So that precludes the heinously immoral clients. You're working with the same client each day, communicating the same primary message. Is risk ever involved in the work? If so, can you give me an example?

MB: We have a great variety of internal clients. Some are more conservative, others are willing to take risks. Our design group has been able to introduce design concepts as the clients have become more open and knowledgeable about design. I get people used to the idea of something appropriate, new and different by filtering it into the "drinking water" slowly so it doesn't shock them. Then, before you know it, one day they wake up and expect it. Good and fresh design is infectious; clients see new materials and come to us requesting something similar.

Our design group is responsible for most of the major projects in the library system. We've expanded our scope in recent years to include projects such as exhibitions, corporate identity, books, banners, the annual report, advertising, multimedia presentations and web design. LIVE From the NYPL is a group that organizes programs, lectures, debates and happenings. They requested that their promotional materials contain a heavy dose of "wasabi" to create in-your-face programming. Other groups, such as the Exhibitions department or NYPL's Young Lions, recognize that a conventional presentation of information is not always sufficient. They want a more contemporary solution. After all, the library isn't just about the Gutenberg Bible!

ML: We make information design, and because information design is about clarity, we work within a certain bandwidth as far as tone, type and image are concerned. Within that bandwidth, we want to be warm, friendly, funny, engaging, hip, bright and energetic. We have to get the facts right, but we wrap all of those details in a package that's shiny enough to catch someone's attention.

We're developing a campaign to remind drivers and cyclists to share the road. Simple enough, but we don't want to be preachy- or worse, boring. In our research, we kept hearing about the fear that cyclists face when they hit the road in such a congested car culture. So we coined phobia-based phrases. Our first creative, a bus back wrap, pictures a wary cyclist and the phrase "Slamiphobia," with a reminder to "Practice good cycology." It's unexpected and fun to read, but it makes you think.

SA: Paul Rand said, "The public is more familiar with bad design than good design. It is conditioned to prefer bad design, because that is what it lives with. The new becomes threatening, the old reassuring." How do you convince the powers that be to allow your work to take risks and go beyond the expected?

MB: Though I wholeheartedly agree with your Paul Rand quote, the public has become more design savvy, and people are generally more open to taking chances. Ultimately, the job of convincing [the public] is achieved through creating good work over a period of time, plain and simple. There is no substitute for a long-term designer-client collaborative relationship.

The library's president had taken a personal interest in a massive exhibition [titled] Utopia. Among the more controversial elements were enormous transparent bookcase-walls, which incorporated the titles and authors of utopia-related literature. I felt that this type of information needed to confront and overwhelm the viewer, to illustrate the tidal wave of material that had been written on the subject. I wanted to layer these bookcases with type. Not everyone was convinced of this idea. The president asked me for a convincing argument. I presented my ideas, and at the end of the discussion I said to him, "I've never steered you wrong before. This will work. Trust me." He did. The walls were a huge success.

ML: To begin the process of change and move to a more risk-friendly creative culture at a large company like Metro, we need the equivalent of brave clients. These are the scrappers who will fight for money, organizational structure or the "Great Idea." Our chief communications officer and the head of our creative services group fight the good fight every day. We also use information on results. Ridership data, onboard surveys and a general public phone survey each year give us the data we need. A year after we rebranded, ridership levels were rising at twice the national average, which is phenomenal. Customer complaints dropped precipitously, and customer satisfaction rose. It made it easier to push for staying the creative course. Our lead designer, Neil Sadler, used to say, "Nothing ordinary." That's our goal.

SA: If you had to contrast working in the private sector to what you do now, what would the major differences be?

MB: If I were in the private sector, I'd probably have less peace of mind and more money. Seriously though, it's important to me to be invested in the work I do. This isn't to say that working outside of nonprofit is bad-that would be ludicrous. I find the relative absence of internal politics in nonprofit to be refreshing. I guess I'm lucky to have my cake and eat it too: I get to do good work for an institution I've had close to my heart for years.

ML: Job security. Great benefits. Direct dialogue with the people you're writing and designing for. One aspect I enjoy is the safety to work long-term as a team, build a body of work and measure the results. We've been able to fine-tune our messaging based on customer reaction, and we're getting better at what we do. And it's a luxury not to have to chase new business.

SA: And, of course, what are the similarities?

MB: You always have to make clients happy, right? Most of ours are fabulous, easy to work with and appreciate what our group offers. Secondly, you always have yourself to contend with. In other words, it's about achieving one's personal best, regardless of the challenges, sacrifices or compromises. In the private sector I'd be working late nights and weekends because it was expected or required. Here, I do it for the love of the work. I've been up until midnight for a week straight, kerning, knowing full well that 99.99 percent of the audience will never know the difference.

ML: Clients can still be a blessing and a curse. We still must find ways to satisfy a variety of voices while we preserve the right design choice. The work process is the same: Define the challenge, develop solutions, gain consensus and revise, revise, revise. At Metro we work fast. This process can happen in a matter of hours or days, rather than weeks or months. It's lively.

SA: Michael, you and I were just in Miami together for an AIGA event. And Marc, you've been active with AIGA New York. If you spend your days creating work that helps the larger society and public, why spend the extra time and effort to be involved so heavily with the future of the profession?

MB: Again, part of it relates to the Rand quote you mentioned earlier. Graphic design is drastically misunderstood. More than ever before, we need to counter the state of affairs in the DIY, Times Roman default-setting, auto-leading, computer-driven graphic design world. Not only are trained designers responsible for upholding quality in their own work, they are equally charged with the duty of educating the public. These are the main reasons for my affiliations with AIGA and other organizations-they serve as guardians of graphic design.

ML: I'm hoping for federal legislation to add a few hours to each day. My kids are, too! I'm on the board of AIGA Los Angeles. It's exciting and rewarding to build a larger and more connected Los Angeles design community. Being a cheerleader for in-house design and part of AIGA puts me in a position to reach out to other in-house groups, recognize and celebrate their work.

SA: Ding ding, ding-both of you gave the right answer. But, let's say I'm obsessed with making life better for others. I want to work on a Greenpeace ship, but I get seasick. Should I look for a job in-house? Are there other options open to me?

MB: Actually, sometimes I get seasick too. No job is without the occasional need for Dramamine. Of course there are other avenues than in-house design departments. I design for individuals and organizations I feel strongly about and that I support. I'm also a musician, [doing] performances in HIV/AIDS hospices, and have worked in soup kitchens.

ML: Well, whether you look for an in-house position or continue to run AdamsMorioka, I think the news is good for both of us. Design will continue to move up the ladder of priorities for companies both public and private, because more and more business leaders understand what good design can do, especially when it comes to the bottom line. Everyone mentions Apple and Mini as great examples of this. But even transportation-a decidedly unsexy sector-is getting the message. Design helped play a role in building a ridership increase at Metro that is double the national average. That's a powerful story.

SA: What's the part of your job you love the best?

MB: Many of the people I get to work with here-in addition to the talented designers-are amazingly dedicated, brilliant and refreshingly, um, quirky. Then there are the moments when I get to view rare manuscripts and artwork up close and personal-they make me wear a bib so I don't drool. And I feel like I'm contributing to helping people in a small way. Am I being redundant yet?

ML: Me, too-I love collaborating with talented people. Our team is just so rich with personality and creativity, and we have such a good time doing what we do. I like celebrating our effectiveness with these people. I like using my energy to help others at Metro to see the value of what we do. Plus, I have the dream commute now: I ride my bike to the train and walk from the train to my office. Heaven.

SA: Did you take that off a billboard? Michael, what was the most significant change you made since you started at Metro?

ML: We made Metro cool. People stop me when they know I'm with Metro, and they say how the buses look great, the ads are fun and how much they like the new maps and timetables. Neil Sadler's reworking of the paint schemes of our buses has been a huge change. The fleet redesign put color on the street. He even put a line on the front of the buses so they smile as they approach you. We've created a voice for Metro that's hip and funny. We talk to our customers and partners with personality, rather than in a dry, institutional manner.

SA: Marc, how about you and NYPL?

MB: Some projects have affected the library on a micro level, others-such as branding initiatives-on macro levels. Rather than list specific projects, I've come to think that my biggest achievement so far has been the overall approach to design here. We speak of a need to be a 21st-century institution, and our work has become more reflective of contemporary approaches to design. We've veered away from the traditional and expected, though still respecting solid traditions. Recently I heard, "Wow, this is from the NYPL?" about an invitation I did. I was thrilled to hear this; it meant that my plan was working. I'm not the only designer here who's done something fresh, but I think I've been able to push the door further open and help keep the momentum going in this direction.

SA: The library is a huge institution, and you're using work from different sources-from 19th-century manuscripts to rare maps. First, what is the overarching message of the library, and second, how can you communicate that with so many different types of images?

MB: In short, the library's message is: "Equal access to all information for all people." Considering the NYPL's vast collections, it is impossible to communicate the entirety of the library. To me, it's a mirror of world culture-a source of wild possibility-and houses the knowledge of humankind throughout the ages. Conveying this is the real challenge we have here.

SA: And finally, what is the most significant thing about you that few people know?

MB: I feel very drawn to things that are hand-made. When I entered the design field, computers were first being introduced; we did things by hand. I continually incorporate elements I've made by hand into my design-there is a huge psychological step of investing myself in a piece when I work this way. Getting away from the computer, going back to pencil and paper, collage, paint, etc., is crucial. This forces me to see and think differently. I take time to investigate and negotiate a visual problem to consider solutions I wouldn't otherwise.

ML: Significant? Yikes, that's a weighty question. My first long-term job after UCLA was working as assistant to a personal manager. I worked the phones, read scripts, managed photo shoots and publicity events, made sure that an extra-tall client had the right-sized bed at a London hotel. And although it was a fun thing to do in my 20s-Movie stars! Film premieres! Craft services!-it wasn't what I wanted to do. So although I had a promising opportunity to "Go Hollywood," I chose a different path. I quit my job, bought a Mac and opened up a teeny writing and design business. And that has made all the difference.

www.nypl.org, www.mta.net

ABOUT METRO
The Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority -Metro-serves as transportation planner and coordinator, designer, builder and operator for the nation's second-largest and most-populous county: 9.6 million people and a 1433-sq.-mi. service area. Recognizing that no one form of transit can solve urban congestion problems, Metro's multimodal approach uses a variety of transportation alternatives to meet the needs of the highly diverse populations in the region. It operates over 2000 peak-hour buses on an average weekday, and designed, built and operates 73 mi. of Metro Rail service. It employs more than 9200 people, including bus and rail operators, mechanics, construction engineers, safety inspectors, transportation planning professionals and, as creative director Michael LeJeune admits, "a few really terrific designers."

ABOUT THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY
The NYPL has 91 libraries and a wealth of online resources. It caters to a vast audience, not only in New York but globally. In addition to books, it offers classes, lectures, readings, performance, video, film, free internet access, homework help, DVDs, collections of materials from antiquity to the present, and fine art. It offers programs for toddlers, kids, teens, adults, the elderly and the visually impaired. Says art director Marc Blaustein, "We have odd artifacts in our collections, such as Jack Kerouac's crutches, a lock of Mary Shelley's hair and a lab coat worn during an ACT UP demonstration. I believe there's even some author's tooth neatly catalogued somewhere. The NYPL is a treasuretrove of information, materials and services for everyone, regardless of who they are. The best part is that almost all of this is completely free to the public."